Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo - Vatican - President Pontifical Family - Dr Scotson

This relates to

The late Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, who died in 2008, formerly a senior Vatican spokesman and President of the Pontifical Council for the Family

The late Pope John Paul (Ioannes Paulus) II, who died in 2005

Mr Chris Davies, an MEP for North West England from 1999 - 2014

The late Dr John Hector Scotson MB ChB MRCS MRCGP 1929 - 2016, formerly a medical doctor from Altrincham, in the Borough of Trafford in Greater Manchester

Mr Thomas H Appleby BSc(hons) MSc CEng MIStructE^, a retired Chartered Structural Engineer from Stretford, which is also in the Borough of Trafford

Pope Benedict (Benedictus) XVI

Ms Carla Flynn, Editor from 2008 - 2012 of the Sale and Altrincham Messenger (SAM) and the Stretford and Urmston Messenger (SUM), which together covered most of the Borough of Trafford. Since 2017, they have been combined into "The Messenger". The SAM and SUM were controlled by the Newsquest Media Group and the combined publication still is. The SAM and SUM were published on the Internet and The Messenger is now.

Mr Arthur G Braithwaite referred to in three other articles on this website

Mr George T Piper referred to in two other articles on this website

Mr Peter J Winchester referred to in three other articles on this website

Ms Nicola Priest, Group Editor (Cheshire) of the Newsquest Media Group from 2006 - 2014

Mr Keith Morris, Editor of the SAM and SUM from 2012 - 2014

Mr Michael Crutchley, Editor of the SAM and the SUM from 2014 - 2017

Both newspapers were under an earlier editor in 2004.

(The above-named are listed in the order in which they are mentioned below.)

^Mr Appleby is the proprietor of this website but we, the operators, have ensured that this does not affect the fairness of the article.

Insert 9 December 2013

Mr Appleby has drawn to our attention an unrelated article, parts of which would have been suitable for this website, written by him for another website. The article, entitled "The Railway between Navigation Road and Stockport", is on www.broomwoodvoice.com. The railway is in Greater Manchester but parts of the article will be of interest to readers throughout the UK .

On Sunday 12 October 2003, a BBC Panorama programme revealed that Cardinal Trujillo, on behalf of Pope John Paul II, had published a statement to the effect that intact latex condoms were permeable to HIV.

Mr Davies disagreed and stated:

"Catholics in Sale and Altrincham should be asking their local priests whether it is right that the Church should lie and put millions at risk of death, in order to promote its moral beliefs. These misleading and dangerous claims are being made by Catholic priests in Africa, Latin America and Asia."

On 29 January 2004, a letter from Dr Scotson was published in the SUM (not the SAM), under a headline "MEP is wrong". Only the first line is relevant: "I maintain that the Vatican is correct...".

On 3 February 2004, Mr Appleby wrote in response and an edited version of his letter was published in the SUM on 12 February 2004. His original letter was as follows:

Dear Sir or Madam

I could comment at length on Dr Scotson’s letter re: condoms but I am confining myself to his first, crucial, sentence, viz

“I maintain that the Vatican is correct and Chris Davies MEP is mistaken …”.

I remind readers of the background: Vatican spokesman Cardinal A L Trujillo has made a statement to the effect that HIV can pass through condoms and Mr Davies and the World Health Organisation have disagreed.

It is enormously important to find the truth on this matter and publicise it worldwide.

I ask Dr Scotson to

a) give the reference(s) to any published research paper(s) on which his opinion is based
b) give as much information as legally possible about any unpublished one(s) of which he is aware
c) list the brand(s) of condom through which, according to the research paper(s), HIV can pass
d) state his qualifications in full, making clear the exact field(s) in which he has expert knowledge.

I also ask Mr Davies to give the same kinds of information as in (a) and (b) regarding any research paper(s) on which his opinion is based.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

PS   I am sending a copy of this to Mr Davies. I would send one to Dr Scotson but I cannot easily find out his address. If you publish this letter, he will presumably see it but you are welcome to send him an advance copy.

The subsequent issues of SUM contained nothing further on the subject, from Dr Scotson, Mr Davies or anyone else. However, on 29 March 2004, Mr Davies' Research Officer, Ms Vicky Swensson, wrote to Mr Appleby apologising for the delay and giving information. The relevant part of her letter is:

Mr Davies has formed his opinion based on research published by the World Health Organisation.

In particular the WHO Fact Sheet No 243 from June 2003 says that

"Laboratory studies have found that viruses (including HIV) do not pass through intact latex condoms even when devices are stretched or stressed. "

We contacted the WHO in November 2003 to ask if this is still the case, and they confirmed that latex condoms remain impermeable to particles the size of the HIV virus. This is true even when the devices are stretched.

In addition a National Institutes of Health Panel that included anti-condom advocates examined the effectiveness of condoms from just about every perspective including strength and porosity: according to its report, released in July 2001, latex condoms are impermeable to even the smallest pathogen. Among STDS, HIV is actually the one condoms work best against.

On Sunday 27 June 2004, another BBC Panorama programme, entitled "Can Condoms Kill?" reviewed the evidence, especially the sources cited by Cardinal Trujillo and concluded:

"Panorama has checked all the sources cited by Cardinal Trujillo and we cannot substantiate his claims."

Mr Appleby found Dr Scotson's address and wrote to him on 10 August 2004 thus:

Dear Dr Scotson

I refer to your letter published in the Stretford & Urmston Messenger on 29 January 2004 and an edited version of one from me, in response, published on 12 February 2004.

I attach a copy of the original version.

I hope you saw Panorama on 27 June 2004 (“Can Condoms Kill?”) but, if not, please read the transcript of it on the BBC website and let me know whether you have changed your opinion.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

Dr Scotson replied on 14 August 2004 thus:

Dear Mr Appleby

Thank you for your letter of 10 August. I was unaware that my letter had been published because I sent the original to the Altrincham Messenger.*

In response to your first two questions I thought you might find this printed information obtained from "Catholic Family News" - of some help.

921.4 ~ The United Nations AIDS agency (UNAIDS) has published a draft of a study...

The UN document referred to contains nothing relevant to the permeability or otherwise of condoms to HIV.

WE KID YOU NOT.

Dr Scotson continued thus:

This is an extract from an article from the BMJ 2004;328:891-893 (10 April).
doi: 10.1136/bmj.328.7444.891 The essence of the article is the way to prevent HIV is partner reduction.

The key to preventing the spread of HIV, especially in epidemics driven mainly by heterosexual transmission, is through changing sexual behaviour. Interest has been growing in an "ABC" approach in which A stands for abstinence or delay of sexual activity, B for be faithful, and C for condom use (box). 1 Although "be faithful" literally implies monogamy, it also includes reductions in casual sex and multiple sexual partnerships (and related issues of partner selection) that would reduce higher risk sex. While most of the often polarised discussion surrounding AIDS prevention has focused on promoting abstinence or use of condoms, w1 w2 partner reduction has been the neglected middle child of the ABC approach.

Epidemiological importance of partner reduction
It seems obvious, but there would be no global AIDS pandemic were it not for multiple sexual partnerships. The rate of change of sexual partners—especially concurrent partners—is a crucial determinant in the spread of sexually transmitted infections, w3 including HIV. 2 Moreover, HIV viral load and therefore infectiousness is dramatically higher during the early (acute) stage of HIV infection, 3 so transmission would be particularly heightened by partner change among newly infected people. Transmission of HIV is also facilitated by the presence of other sexually transmitted infections, especially ulcerative ones. w4 Hence, increased risk of other sexually transmitted infections from multiple partnerships further magnifies the spread of HIV.

Other references relating to condom use can be found at these web sites:

Condom Prevention of HIV BMJ July 2004; 329: 185-186

D Wilson "Partner reduction and prevention of HIV/Aids" BMJ April 10 2004 328 97444) 848-849

In addition to these references I would point out that when considering the effectiveness of condoms in preventing HIV- AIDS virus transmission it is pertinent to recall that the virus is 50 or more times smaller than the sperm yet the efficacy of condoms in preventing pregnancy is variable- different series have reported rates of 85-95% (Medicine Vol 29:9 2001). The issue on condom material is latex which is porous. Condom manufacturers do NOT state that they prevent HIV transmission.

I have no information concerning the effectiveness of different types of condom.

My qualifications, for which you have asked, are MB ChB MRCS MRCGP.

I am a retired general practitioner with an interest in medical ethics and the adverse effects of drugs.

I enclose part of a paper from "Culture and Cosmos" which again gives relevant information.

I hope this information will be of some help to you.

Yours sincerely

John Scotson

* "Altrincham Messenger" should be "Sale and Altrincham Messenger".

The paper enclosed by Dr Scotson contains nothing relevant to the permeability or otherwise of condoms to HIV. (It is entitled "Culture and Cosmos: Volume 1, Number 23 " and dated 13 January 2004. The publisher is "Culture of Life Foundation".)

We have printed the BMJ extracts, as quoted by Dr Scotson, verbatim. We do not understand why certain terms, eg "(box)" and "w1" have been included but it is clear enough that the extracts contain nothing relevant to the permeability or otherwise of condoms to HIV.

Mr Appleby replied on 24 August 2004 thus:

Dear Dr Scotson,

Thank you for your letter of 14 August 2004 and enclosure.

Cardinal Trujillo’s assertion with which Mr Davies disagreed was to the effect that HIV could pass through an intact condom. Neither your letter, nor either of the websites to which you refer, nor the enclosure cites any evidence for this.

Evidence that people have caught HIV as a result of sexual intercourse whilst using condoms is not evidence that HIV can pass through an intact condom. Many people probably use condoms carelessly and some might catch HIV through cuts, grazes etc. when in contact with HIV positive partners.

I comment especially on your paragraph

“In addition to these references I would point out that when considering the effectiveness of condoms in preventing HIV-AIDS virus transmission it is pertinent to recall that the virus is 50 or more times smaller than the sperm yet the efficacy of condoms in preventing pregnancy is variable – different series have reported rates of 85 - 95% (Medicine Vol 29:9 2001). The issue on condom material is latex which is porous. Condom manufacturers do NOT state that they prevent HIV transmission.”

You cite no evidence that sperm can pass through an intact condom. You state that the virus is 50 or more times smaller than the sperm and I do not doubt this but, in the absence of evidence that sperm can pass through an intact condom, this has no relevance to the question of whether the virus can do so. You state ”…condom material is latex which is porous” but you cite no evidence that condoms are porous to particles of any particular size. You continue “Condom manufacturers do NOT state that they prevent HIV transmission.” It would be irresponsible and confusing to state “Condoms prevent HIV transmission” without qualifying this with warnings regarding care to be taken when using them, possible transmission through cuts, grazes etc. and possible rare instances of HIV transmission through condoms. All condom manufacturers are probably satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that HIV transmission through their condoms occurs very rarely, if ever. They are probably satisfied of this partly because of the evidence cited on Panorama on 27 June 2004 and partly because, if HIV really could pass through intact condoms on more than rare occasions, the Vatican, with its great resources, could by now have published the results of a sophisticated, repeatable experiment to demonstrate this.

I regard it as very serious that you, a qualified medical doctor, have publicly supported Cardinal Trujillo’s assertion which not only has no published scientific basis but conflicts with experimental evidence cited on Panorama and that you have still not withdrawn your support for it.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

Mr Appleby's letter to the SUM stated: "Vatican spokesman Cardinal A L Trujillo has made a statement to the effect that HIV can pass through condoms..." but, with hindsight, Mr Appleby says that he (Mr Appleby) should have elaborated on this. Cardinal Trujillo did not merely claim that HIV could pass through faulty or damaged condoms, he made assertions to the effect that ALL CONDOMS WERE POROUS TO HIV and furthermore that ALL CONDOMS WERE POROUS TO SPERM.

WE KID YOU NOT.

Mr Appleby described Cardinal Trujillo as "at best, confused".

Mr Appleby has a radical proposal, namely that the United Nations, or failing that, the European Union, should force the Vatican State to become a democratic republic under a secular constitution, by means of a trade embargo if necessary.

He points out that the present arrangements arbitrarily give the Roman Catholic Church advantages over competing organisations but adds that, in general, he objects to official status given to any organisation or belief system for no valid reason. He gives, as an example, the official status given by Pakistan to a particular denomination of Islam.

Mr Appleby has assured us that he has no financial interest in any business which manufactures or sells condoms.

The above part of this article, except the text in blue at the beginning and the insert immediately below it, is essentially as published in 2004. The original text at the beginning mentioned Cardinal Trujillo, Mr Davies, Dr Scotson and Mr Appleby but, of course, not Ms Flynn, Ms Priest, Mr Morris or Mr Crutchley.

On 15 September 2010 (the day before the Pope Benedict XVI arrived in the UK for his four day state visit), Mr Appleby sent an e-mail as follows to Ms Flynn:

Dear Ms Flynn

The Pope's visit prompts me to remind / inform readers of correspondence published in the SUM and SAM in 2004, further to assertions made to the BBC, on behalf of the Vatican, by Cardinal A L Trujillo. I refer readers to the relevant article on www.cronies.org.uk.

The RC Church has still not retracted anything stated by Cardinal Trujillo and it continues to mislead people.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H. Appleby

Note: When Mr Appleby sent the e-mail, Cardinal Trujillo's name was shown on our Home Page.

He sent us a copy of it and later pointed out that it had not been published. On 22 October 2010, we sent Ms Flynn a letter, with a copy of the e-mail, as follows:

Dear Ms Flynn

We attach a copy of an e-mail sent to you on 15 September 2010 by Mr T H Appleby (who is referred to in the article re: Cardinal Trujillo etc on our website).

Why was it not published either on your website or in SUM or SAM?

Yours sincerely

Hon Sec

Having received no response, we sent a further letter on 17 November 2010, with a copy of the previous letter and another copy of the e-mail, as follows:

Dear Ms Flynn

Please note that we have still not received a reply to our letter of 22 October 2010. We attach a copy of that letter and of the e-mail referred to therein.

Yours sincerely

Hon Sec

Ms Flynn replied on 18 November 2010, as follows:

Dear Mr ..........

Further to your letters dated October 22 and November 17, 2010.

I have tried unsuccessfully to telephone you on the number you have given in your correspondence to respond to your question.

The Messenger, like most newspapers, receives an enormous amount of letters and we never guarantee a letter will be published, either in the newspaper or online.

There are many reasons for this, but generally, priority will always be given to well-written letters that address local issues.

Having reviewed the original e-mail by Mr Appleby, it it doesn't explain clearly what it is about and, at first glance, doesn't appear to refer to an issue in Trafford. It gives people a website to go to for more details. This is why it wasn't considered for publication.

Yours sincerely

Carla Flynn

Editor

We leave it to readers to judge Ms Flynn's letter but we point out that, when Mr Appleby sent the e-mail, the text in blue at the beginning of this article mentioned "Dr John Scotson MB ChB MRCS MRCGP, a retired medical doctor from Altrincham". Even a cursory glance would therefore have shown that the article related to Trafford. Futhermore, Mr Appleby's e-mail mentioned correspondence previously published in the SUM and SAM. It should have been obvious to Ms Flynn and her staff that correspondence unrelated to Trafford would probably not have been published in the SUM or SAM under her predecessor.

On 20 November 2010, we heard that the Vatican had published an amendment to its doctrine re: condoms. It received extensive media coverage (eg in the Observer on Sunday 21 November 2010). On 21 November 2010, we sent Mr Appleby an e-mail, drawing his attention to the amendment, with a copy of Ms Flynn's letter of 18 November 2010 as an attachment. On 22 November 2010, he sent us a copy of a further e-mail to Ms Flynn, as follows:

Dear Ms Flynn

Mr .........., the Secretary of the group which operates www.cronies.org.uk, has sent me a copy of your letter of 18 November 2010.

By a remarkable coincidence, the Vatican published further material re: condoms shortly after you sent the letter. You will probably have seen news reports on this on TV and / or in the national press.

I suggest that you publish the following on your website and in SAM and SUM:

The Pope's recent statements re: condoms prompt me to remind / inform readers of material published in the SAM and SUM further to assertions made to the BBC in 2003 by the late Cardinal A L Trujillo on behalf of the Vatican and the consequent criticism of the Vatican by Chris Davies MEP. I refer readers to the relevant article on www.cronies.org.uk.

The material recently published by the Vatican implies that condoms give at least some protection against HIV but does not include any retraction of anything stated by the late Cardinal Trujillo. Perhaps a local member of the RC clergy could tell us whether the Vatican still maintains that condoms of all brands currently being manufactured are porous to HIV.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

Ms Flynn later claimed to have no record of this e-mail. See below.

On 4 December 2010, Mr Appleby sent us a copy of a further e-mail to Ms Flynn, as follows:

Dear Ms Flynn

I note that you have not implemented the suggestion in my e-mail of 22nd November 2010. Please explain why you have not done so.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

Ms Flynn later claimed to have no record of this e-mail either. See below.

On 4 January 2011, he sent us a copy of yet another e-mail to her, as follows:

Dear Ms Flynn

Please note that I have still not received a reply to my e-mail of 4 December 2010.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

On 5 January 2011, he sent us a copy of a reply from her, as follows:

Dear Mr Appleby

Thank you for your e-mail, however, I have no record of any previous correspondence.

Please could you forward your original inquiry.

Thank you.

Regards

Carla Flynn

Editor

On 11 January 2011, he sent us a copy of a letter (not an e-mail) to her, as follows:

Dear Ms Flynn

Thank you for your e-mail of 5 January 2011.

I am sending this by post instead of e-mail because of your statement "I have no record of any previous correspondence."

I attach copies of e-mails I sent you on 22 November and 4 December 2010. In view of the fact that you received my e-mail of 4 January 2011, I do not understand how you could not have received the two earlier ones sent to the same e-mail address but I hope that you will, nevertheless, publish on your website, as soon as possible, the last two paragraphs of my e-mail of 22 November 2010, even if you think it is too late to publish the material in your newspapers.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

He has since given us a Certificate of Posting for an item sent to her on 11 January 2011.

On 26 January 2011, he sent us a copy of a further letter to her as follows, with a note stating that he had sent it, with copies of his previous letter and enclosures, by Recorded Delivery:

Dear Ms Flynn

I attach a copy of a letter I sent you on 11 January 2011 and copies of the enclosures sent therewith.

Please note that I have still not received any response and I note that there is still nothing relating to the above on your website.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

He has since given us a Recorded Delivery receipt for an item sent to her on 26 January 2011. The Royal Mail website shows that it was delivered and signed for the next day. The Ref is AH606018876GB. On 9 February 2011, he sent us a copy of yet another letter to her, as follows, again with a note stating that he had sent it by Recorded Delivery:

Dear Ms Flynn

Further to my letter of 26 January 2011 and enclosures, you left a message on my answering service on 27 January 2011 asking me to ring you to "discuss these letters".

I rang you the next day (at about 11.15 am). Your answering machine was on and I left a message, asking you to either publish, on your website, the material I wanted you to publish or write to me explaining why you had not done so.

I have not received anything from you and the material is still not on your website.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

On 11 February 2011, he sent us a copy of a reply from her, as follows:

Dear Mr Appleby

Thank you for your letter dated February 9.

I refer you to my previous correspondence which explained the reasons why your letter did not appear in the Messenger. The same applies to online content.

Because your letter is not about a Trafford-related matter, it will not be published on the website.

For your information, readers' letters are submitted for consideration only - there is never a guarantee that they will be published.

Yours sincerely

Carla Flynn

Editor

Her statement "...your letter is not about a Trafford-related matter..." was ridiculous. The material Mr Appleby wanted her to publish related to a retired GP in Trafford, to an MEP for whom some Trafford residents had voted and, of course, to previous editions of the SUM and SAM.

Mr Braithwaite, Mr Piper and Mr Winchester have often expressed concerns about the ways in which newspapers are controlled. On 14 May 2011, we informed them that we were updating this article and sent them copies of the e-mails and letters to and from Ms Flynn. They visited us on 12 June 2011 and a conversation took place as follows:

Mr Winchester: Ms Flynn might fancy a Catholic priest.

Mr Braithwaite: She might fancy Tony Blair...

Mr Piper: ...or Lord Irvine. Sometimes, an older man has that “Je ne sais quoi”.

Mr Winchester: What's that mean?

Mr Piper: It's French. It means “I don't know what”.

Mr Braithwaite: I know that he has a huge pension.

Mr Winchester: I fancy his pension but not him.

Mr Braithwaite: Tony Blair might have fancied him in those tights.

Mr Winchester: The Pope's older than Lord Irvine. I've heard that she admires the Pope but there may be no more to it.

Mr Piper: She was probably offended by some of those civil servants' suggestions, for example the one that the Pope should stay in a council flat.

Mr Braithwaite: That was awful.

Mr Piper: I agree. The Pope should always be able to stay in a suitable place, chosen to remind people of his teachings.

Mr Winchester: What type of place do you have in mind?

Mr Piper: A condominium.

Mr Braithwaite: He could have blessed the union of David Cameron and Nick Clegg.

Mr Piper: Yes – and come back to give a “State of the Union” address.

Mr Winchester: He could have presented them with something to remind them of his teachings.

Mr Braithwaite: Perhaps a condiment set...

Mr Piper: ... made of porous materials.

Mr Winchester: That would have been silly.

Mr Piper: Well, it would have reminded them of his teachings in two more ways.

Mr Braithwaite ( to Mr. Piper ): I think your idea about Lord Irvine was best. He's very nice.

Mr Piper: I know. I used to see him often. I was an adviser to Tony Blair.

Mr Braithwaite and Mr. Winchester, in unison: Really?

Mr Piper: Yes. I advised him to resign.

Mr Winchester ( to Mr Piper ): You were telling us about Lord Irvine.

Mr Piper: Ah, yes. I remember my first 'phone call to him, just after he'd been appointed Lord Chancellor. Tony had asked me to arrange a meeting at Lord Irvine's official residence, with Gordon Brown, who was Chancellor of the Exchequer, to discuss samples of wallpaper for it.** I said “Good morning, Lord Irvine, this is George Piper from the Prime Minister's office” but he answered, in a friendly tone, “There's no need to call me “Lord Irvine”.......... just call me “Lord”.” I arranged the meeting and accompanied Tony and Gordon to it. When we arrived, Lord Irvine was practising archery in the lounge.

Mr Winchester: Archery? You must have been very surprised.

Mr Piper: I was and I think Gordon was but Tony evidently wasn't. He gave Lord Irvine a present – a picture of Robin Hood.

Mr Winchester: That was very appropriate for someone interested in archery. Did he hang it on a wall?

Mr Piper: No. He used it as a target. After a few minutes, Tony started the meeting. Gordon spoke at length about the economic implications of the choice of wallpaper.

Mr Winchester: Did they only talk about wallpaper?

Mr Piper: Actually, no. Tony said that he had a long-standing ambition to have the House of Lords modernised.

Mr Braithwaite: Did he give any details?

Mr Piper: Yes. He said that he wanted to have a microphone fitted into the Woolsack.

Mr Winchester (to Mr Piper): Do you know whether Gordon ever said anything about Lord Irvine's pension?

Mr Piper: Oh, yes. He was furious. He lectured Tony.

Mr Braithwaite: I didn't know that Gordon cared so much about the public.

Mr Piper: I haven't finished. He said that Government policy was inconsistent^^ and that his pension should be as big as Lord Irvine's.

Mr. Winchester: I still think she might fancy a Catholic priest.

Mr. Piper: It's possible. I know several Catholic priests; they're all wonderful chaps. One of them spends almost all his spare time on voluntary work.

Mr. Winchester: What does he do?

Mr. Piper: He teaches boys football. He takes his responsibilities to supervise them very seriously. A few days ago, he found that one of them had been stealing other boys' pocket money.

Mr. Braithwaite: How did he find out?

Mr. Piper: He's very clever. He had a remote-controlled video camera hidden in a clock in the changing room.

THEY KID YOU, WE THINK.

** In 1998, Tony Blair's Government spent £59,000 of public money on wallpaper specially made for the Lord Chancellor's official residence in the House of Lords.

^^ In June 2011, it was revealed that, in 2006, Gordon Brown had privately described Tony Blair as (inter alia) "inconsistent" (to Ed Balls).

On 30 June 2014, it came to our attention that Ms Flynn was no longer Editor of either newspaper. We apologise for not having noticed this earlier.

It was clear from www.messengernewspapers.co.uk that the last editions of the SUM and SAM in which Ms Flynn was named as Editor were the ones of 5 July 2012 and that the next editions, of 12 July 2012, named the Editor as "Keith Morris". Neither contained any explanation for the change. However, the website contained an article dated 24 August 2012, which stated

"Carla Flynn ... is now responsible for the Guardian titles in Knutsford, Northwich, Middlewich, Winsford and Crewe."

Mr Appleby said "Readers of the SUM and SAM should understand that the change doesn't imply that those newspapers will deal differently with correspondence re: the RC Church. The Newsquest Media Group is still controlled by misguided people."

He showed us a copy of a letter of 7 June 2011, as follows, to the Chairman of the Group:

Dear Sir or Madam

Re: Ms C Flynn, Editor of the Sale and Altrincham Messenger and Stretford and Urmston Messenger

I refer to the article which shows correspondence between me and Ms Flynn on www.cronies.org.uk.

Please let me know what action, if any, you propose to take in relation to this.

Yours sincerely

Thomas H Appleby

He then showed us other papers, which indicated that the letter had been referred to Ms Nicola Priest, Group Editor (Cheshire), who had written to him, on 9 June 2011, stating that Ms Flynn had "spent a great deal of time last year addressing complaints" from him. (Nothing he had sent to Ms Flynn had constituted a complaint but that is a side issue.) If Ms Flynn had spent a great deal of time considering his e-mail of 15 September 2010 (and deciding what to write to our Hon Sec on 18 November 2010), she should have been well aware, when she wrote to him on 11 February 2011, that her statement "... your letter is not about a Trafford - related matter ..." was false.

Ms Priest's letter also stated that she had agreed with Ms Flynn's decision.

WE KID YOU NOT

He then showed us a copy of a letter of 21 June 2011, from him to Ms Priest. It contained the following:

"You ... state that you agreed with her (Ms Flynn's) decision. Did you look at the relevant article on www.cronies.org.uk before you agreed with it and, if so, why did you agree with it?"

He said "I never received a reply. My letter, or a reply, may have been lost in the post. If she did send a reply, it should have been published, with background information, in all the newspapers over which she had authority and on the Newsquest Media Group website. It would have been very newsworthy."

He added "Dr Scotson probably still preaches dangerous nonsense to people in Trafford."

Explanatory Note

Mr Appleby told us on 11 February 2011 that he intended to write to the Chairman of the Newsquest Media Group but not until we had updated this article. On 21 June 2011, he discussed the outcome with us but we decided not to add anything re: the Chairman or Ms Priest because we thought it would be obvious to most of our readers that Ms Flynn's decisions had been approved at a higher level. However, the information that Ms Flynn had been replaced as Editor of both newspapers prompted us to reconsider the matter. We decided to update this article to make it obvious that (inter alia) she had not been disciplined.

On 15 November 2014, we sent Mr Morris a letter as follows, by Recorded Delivery:

Dear Mr Morris

We refer to the article entitled "A Retired Doctor ..." on our website, especially the last part beginning "On 30 June 2014 ...".

We invite you to comment but, whether or not you do so, please publish, in the next editions of the SUM and SAM (and hence on messengernewspapers.co.uk), a statement that you are, or are not, a Roman Catholic and a statement that your editorial discretion is, or is not, biased in favour of the Roman Catholic Church.

Yours sincerely

Hon Sec

The Royal Mail website shows that it was delivered on 17 November 2014. We did not receive a reply and our request was not complied with. However, the editions of the SUM and SAM dated 20 November 2014 named the Editor as "Michael Crutchley"!

On 3 January 2015, we sent Mr Crutchley a letter as follows, by Recorded Delivery:

Dear Mr Crutchley

We wrote to your predecessor, Mr Keith Morris, on 15 November 2014 but have not received a reply.

We refer to the article entitled "A Retired Doctor ..." on our website, especially the last part beginning "On 30 June 2014 ...".

We invite you to comment but, whether or not you do so, please publish, in the next editions of the SUM and SAM (and hence on messengernewspapers.co.uk), a statement that you are, or are not, a Roman Catholic and a statement that your editorial discretion is, or is not, biased in favour of the Roman Catholic Church.

Yours sincerely

Hon Sec

(On 3 January 2015, this article showed the text of our letter to Mr Morris, as above.)

The Royal Mail website shows that it was delivered on 5 January 2015. Again, we did not receive a reply and, again, our request was not complied with.

We asked Mr Appleby "Should the remit of the PCC be extended to allow it to consider all allegations of editorial bias?" He answered "No. It would create an expensive bureaucratic nightmare. Better education is the key to progress. In particular, schools should teach that some newspaper editors, for reasons best known to themselves, keep important information out of newspapers but that some of it appears on websites."

Mr Braithwaite retired to the Peak District in September 2012 but he, Mr Piper and Mr Winchester visited us again on 8 February 2015 and a conversation took place as follows:

Mr Braithwaite: I'm very interested in the information about Nicola. I've been following her career for years. She used to be Science Editor of the Catholic Herald. Last year, she won first prize in the Pope's "Best Newspaper Editor" awards - a week's holiday with a cardinal. Incidentally, Carla Flynn won the second prize.

Mr Winchester: What was it?

Mr Braithwaite: A week's holiday with two cardinals.

Mr Piper: I knew that she used to be Science Editor of the Catholic Herald. She came to a dinner party at 10 Downing Street when I worked there. I've a very good memory. It was in the summer of 2003. I particularly remember that she seemed confused.

Mr Winchester: What happened?

Mr Piper: Let me explain the background. Tony had said that he was wondering whether to become a Catholic and wanted to meet well-known Catholics to discuss their beliefs but also wanted to show that he welcomed people of all faiths. He decided to host a dinner party and gave me a draft list, for my comments, of people to be invited and a draft invitation letter, which explained the purposes of the party.

Mr Winchester: Who was on the list?

Mr Piper: Well, there was the Pope, followed by all the cardinals, various other religious leaders and people, including Nicola, who had important jobs in the media.

Mr Braithwaite: It must have been a long list.

Mr Piper: Yes, but I'd told Tony earlier that probably only a few cardinals would come. However, I'd advised him to invite them all, to avoid the risk of offending any of them. The Pope sent a very nice reply, saying that he'd have very much liked to attend but, because of his poor health, had arranged to stay in the Vatican and have dinner with his medical adviser on the evening of the party. Cardinal Trujillo's reply said that he'd have loved to attend but had arranged to go to Switzerland on that day. Most of the other cardinals replied to the effect that they'd have liked to attend but had large backlogs of paperwork. I especially remember the reply from one of them. It was handwritten, from a hospital bed. It said that he was suffering from shock caused by an attempted assassination and also had a huge backlog of paperwork.

Mr Winchester: Did it say that Al Qaeda had tried to kill him?

Mr Piper: No. It said that he'd been ambushed by several men whilst driving his car through a deprived area and that they'd tried to suffocate him by stretching a condom over his head but that some men had jumped out of another car and saved him. It continued "Think of The Parable of the Good Samaritan. Jesus would have been pleased with the men who rescued me."

Mr Winchester (to Mr Piper): He was very lucky, George but I'm not sure that I agree with his comment about Jesus.

Mr Piper: Nor am I. The letter also said that the other car had been a limousine and that the men who'd rescued him had been the owner of a children's clothing factory and his assistants. On the subject of terrorism, I have a friend who worked in the Vatican in 2003. Later that year, he told me that, a few weeks after Cardinal Trujillo's appearance on BBC TV, someone had planted a bomb under ther the Pope's bed but that it had failed to explode.

Mr Braithwaite: Your friend must have been very relieved.

Mr Piper: Yes. He was very glad that none of the staff had been injured and that the beautiful architecture hadn't been damaged. Actually, I have personal experience of terrorism. In spring 2003, I was at 10 Downing Street when Tony told me that the police had been tipped off that a gang of taxpayers was plotting to kidnap Lord Irvine. He said that he hadn't been able to contact Lord Irvine and asked me to go to the House of Lords to look for him. Well, I had a cup of tea, walked to the House of Lords and found him in the bar. It transpired that four men had had a clever plan.^^^ One had intended to hire a van and fit false number plates to it. Two had intended to dress as bishops, walk into the House of Lords during a break, entice Lord Irvine outside on the pretext of wanting to discuss subsidies to faith schools and bundle him into the van. They'd planned to take the van to an accomplice's garage nearby, transfer Lord Irvine to another van, drive it to the coast, tie bricks to him and dump him in the sea. However, they'd disappeared. They'd probably suspected that the police knew something about the plot and fled abroad.

Mr Winchester: It's very fortunate that they didn't succeed.

Mr Braithwaite: I agree. The tights could have posed a long term hazard to marine life.

Mr Winchester (to Mr Piper): George, you were telling us about the dinner party.

Mr Piper: Ah, yes. Whilst I was reading the replies, it occurred to me that Jeremy Paxman should be invited and I suggested this to Tony. I said "He has an important job in the media and might ask interesting questions." "Go on," said Tony, "invite him." Tony also asked me to invite Lord Irvine. He didn't give a reason but I did so. A few weeks later, the party took place. Shortly after all the guests had arrived, Jeremy approached Lord Irvine and said "Good afternoon, Lord Irvine, I'm surprised to see you here. I understood that this party was for religious leaders and people with important jobs in the media." Lord Irvine said "I'm a religious leader. I'm head of the Courtist faith, which teaches, inter alia, that judges act on behalf of God." Jeremy asked "Have you any plans to promote it?" and Lord Irvine answered "Well, I'd like to set up a faith school but I've only been able to identify a few potential pupils." Jeremy asked "Would it be subsidised by the taxpayer?" and Lord Irvine said "Yes, of course." Jeremy then asked him "Does your doctrine about judges apply to them all, whenever they're on duty?" and Lord Irvine answered "Well, yes." Jeremy continued "The Law Lords are judges, aren't they?" and Lord Irvine answered "Yes, of course." Jeremy then asked him "Does God ever change his mind?" and Lord Irvine answered "Of course not. God's infallible. He could never have a reason to change his mind." Jeremy continued "Why does your legal system provide for appeals to the Law Lords? If all decisions of the Court of Appeal are made on behalf of God and if all those of the Law Lords are also, the Law Lords can never allow an appeal." "Come on, Jeremy, you're being silly," said Lord Irvine. "No I'm not," said Jeremy, "I'm arguing logically." "Well," said Lord Irvine, "faith doesn't involve logic."

Mr Braithwaite (to Mr Piper): George, you were going to tell us why you said that Nicola seemed confused.

Mr Piper: Ah, yes. There were several incidents. Tony introduced her to the Aga Khan. He said "I'm pleased to meet you. I've been looking forward to this party. I was so keen to come that I postponed a meeting in Kazakhstan." She asked him "Do you have a cooker factory there?" About an hour later, she was having a conversation with the Catholic Archbishop of Westminster. He said "I'm hoping to persuade Mr Blair to become a Catholic but I'm having to compete with Lord Irvine, who's trying to persuade him to join a new faith group. I'm going to introduce Mr Blair to some people who've recently become Catholics but, actually, he already knows one, a wonderful chap. He's one of the Men in Stockings." She looked shocked and he looked puzzled. A few minutes later, Tony introduced her to Alan Rusbridger, Editor of The Guardian. He said "I know your father. I often visit the North West and, of course, The Guardian has a long - standing connection with Manchester. I last saw him only a few weeks ago, at a dinner in Manchester. I was sitting next to him." Nicola said "That's very interesting. He'll be pleased to hear that I've met you." Mr Rusbridger continued "That reminds me. We both had omelettes. Your father complimented the chef afterwards, the chef gave him the recipe and he gave me a copy. I've used it at home several times and I've given Tony a copy. He's just told me that there'll be omelettes available here tonight, made to that recipe." Mr Rusbridger showed her the menu and pointed out "Special free - range egg omelette made to a recipe from Manchester".

Mr Braithwaite: Note the term "free - range".

Mr Piper: Yes. Tony wanted to show that he cared about animal welfare.

Mr Braithwaite: What else was on the menu?

Mr Piper: Well, there were hors d'oeuvres of several types, followed by halal lamb korma with pilau rice, roast kosher beef with roast potatoes and, of course, vegetables. There were actually vegetables of six types but the menu only described them as "various vegetables". Anyway, I'm digressing again. Nicola looked puzzled. She asked him "Why were you at a dinner with my father?" and he said "Well, it was for members of The Independent Order of Odd Fellows ..." but, before he could say anything more, she fainted. Tony called a doctor but she regained consciousness within a few minutes.

Mr Winchester: It's a Friendly Society, isn't it?

Mr Piper: Yes. As she was regaining consciousness, I told her that but she gasped "I'll bet it is!" Anyway, she was soon able to stand up again and, within half an hour, was sitting at a table with other guests, having the hors d'oeuvres, when the catering manager came out of the kitchen and asked her "Is everything all right, madam?" and she answered "Yes, thank you." He continued "I hope you'll like the Jerusalem artichokes. They'll be here for the main course" and she asked him "Do they design synagogues?"

Mr Braithwaite (to Mr Piper): George, have you told Carla Flynn about this?

Mr Piper: No. She'd probably spend a great deal of time considering it and still not understand it.

Mr Winchester (to Mr Piper): Did Jeremy ask any other interesting questions?

Mr Piper: Oh, yes. I remember one in particular. He asked Nicola whether she'd voted for Mr Davies at the recent European election and she said that she hadn't but she added that she wanted the UK to leave the EU.

Mr Braithwaite: Did she give any reason?

Mr Piper: Yes. She said that she'd heard that there was hegemony in the European Parliament.

Mr Winchester (to Mr Piper): George, did you hear any of the cardinals say anything about the halal or kosher meat?***

Mr Piper: Well, not specifically but, before the meal, they all said (chanting tunelessly) "Benedicte Deus, qui pascis nos a iuventute nostra ..."

Mr Braithwaite (to Mr Piper): Thank you, George.

Mr Piper: I almost forgot to tell you. I happened to meet Nicola's father a few weeks later. I went into a pub in Manchester and noticed Mr Rusbridger with another man. I said "Hello, Mr Rusbridger" and he immediately remembered having met me at 10 Downing Street. He introduced me to the other man, who was Nicola's father! Mr Rusbridger didn't stay long after that. He said "I'm sorry, I'm due to catch a train to London" and left. I stayed with Nicola's father and we had an interesting discussion. I particularly remember part of it. He said "It's important to learn from one's mistakes" and I agreed. I described mistakes I'd made and what I'd learnt from them, then I asked him "If you could turn back the clock, what would you do differently?" "Well, for example," he said, "I'd use condoms."

Mr Braithwaite: Does either of you know whether Mr Crutchley's a Catholic?

Mr Winchester: I'm not sure. He may be a spiritualist.

Mr Braithwaite: Why do you suspect that?

Mr Winchester: Well, a cleaning lady who works for him also works for me. She said recently that, often, when she'd been working near his office, she'd heard a voice asking "Is anyone there?"

THEY KID YOU, WE THINK.

^^^In 2003, security at the Palace of Westminster was poor.

*** It is clear from news reports that the Pope does not object, at least publicly, to the inhumane slaughter of animals as practised by some religious bodies and, as far as we know, none of his predecessors did so. See the "Addendum re: Halal and Kosher Meat" on this website. News reports published in January 2014 indicated that kosher meat had been cooked in the Vatican, on the Pope's instructions, for visitors.

We are satisfied that this article is factually correct but, to be completely fair, we point out that the RC Church and Newsquest Media Group could comment on it, on their own websites, especially in relation to Mr Appleby's opinions.

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Last updated 20 September 2019